Open Thread – Pakistani measures to build confidence with India

What do you think?

Confidence building measures were supposed to bridge the “trust deficit” between India and Pakistan. A degree of mutual trust was presumed to be important before negotiations on trickier issues (like Kashmir, for example) could commence.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh—who appears to be unconvinced of the need to get tough with Pakistan even after terrorist attacks across several Indian cities over the last year—has called upon the nation to reflect on relations with Pakistan. So let’s reflect on one particular aspect: from India’s perspective, what measures has Pakistan taken to build confidence with India?

15 thoughts on “Open Thread – Pakistani measures to build confidence with India”

  1. For Pakistan CBM does not mean confidence building measures but continental ballistic missiles. The Pak army’s raison d’etre will disappear if there is lasting peace in the subcontinent. So it is not surprising that they have no interest in CBM (the confidence kind, that is). And the peaceniks in India who clamour for people to people contact do not realise that Pak being a military dicatorship does not have to listen to its people. The Pak populace can demand as many CBMs as they like, but if the army does not want it, it ain’t happening. So forget about this peace process charade, take the bull by the horns and crack down hard on the terrorists and their support network, wherever they might exist (in India and abroad). When the Indian government starts showing serious results in their own war on terror, Pakistan will be ready to talk peace and then we can have it on our own terms and not be dictated by Mush/Bush & company.

    Sorry for the rant folks, this “peace process” thing really gets my goat.

  2. Umrao jaan u hit the nail on the head, bullseye, reflection done nitin. now lets call up manmohan singh and give him our suggestion.

  3. The very phrase CBM assumes misunderstanding instead of malice and culpability on part of pakistan.
    A very serious mistake if you ask me

    Regards

  4. what measures has Pakistan taken to build confidence with India?

    Nitin, it is a meaningless question to ask.
    And the reason for that is something one sees throughout the Islamic world.
    In the absence of a systematic consensus within their peoples, there are multiple factions, and multiple centres of power.

    Typically, one of these centres of power, or a faction within such a centre, is Extremist and/or Jihadist.

    Many of the other centres, and even the rest of the peoples, while not actively extremist, condone this, or even surreptitiously support it.

    This allows the rest of their centres of power to claim innocence even while an extremist faction/power centre wages Jihadist war on the infidel of choice.

    It is thus useless for Israel to ask what confidence building measure Lebanon has taken when their govt insists it is Hezbollah which is the problem, not them.

    Similarly, if the Pak. Army and/or the Pak. Govt insists it is the “freedom-fighters” who are the problem and not them, asking for confidence building measures is useless.

  5. I am reminded of a dialogue in the movie Troy – “peace is for the weak and women”. The best way to peace is through force. Bulldoze all terrorists and offer peace in your terms – thats the way to go. Tasty biriyanis in Lahore, beautiful girls asking Indian cricketers to marry them, buses across the border – just dont play footsie with Pakistan.

  6. Gentlemen,

    But we have been asked to reflect! Sceptical as many of us on this blog are, can we identify any measures that Pakistan undertook that actually inspired confidence on this side of the border.

    7X6,

    I’m not sure if this helps, but we could narrow down the issue further: has the Government of Pakistan taken any measures could reasonably cause the Government of India to have greater confidence in the former?

    RS,

    🙂 (That’s a prize winning entry)

  7. ” what measures has Pakistan taken to build confidence with India?”

    How about a nuclear cover to the 10s (if not 100s) of training sites in POK? How about kits with plastic ladder for terrorists to jump over fenced wall to cross into Indian controlled J&K?

    A better question may be, “what measures did India take to give Pakistan the cover to pretend it is building confidence with India?” How about the bus service so that people can enter into India with no valid papers or passport. How about a ceasefire agreement so that terrorists don’t need the cover of Pak Army shelling to enter the killing fields in J&K. How about a govt spokesperson claiming, very winter, that terrorists crossing the border has gone down.

    In any case, apparently Pakistan dips into its taliban piggy bank and arrests 150 of them in Baloch and US State Dept demands hard proof from India to implicate its front line ally in terror fighting. And the same day Gen Mush makes a statement that stopping the talks on J&K plays into terrorists’ hands. While he doesn’t even see the irony, Manmohan obliges.

    200 of your people dead – sorry, but we are not with you says US.

  8. One CBM I will whole heartedly support is India engaging in targetted assasinations of terrorists on Pak soil and they looking the other way. Apparently, the Pak govt. cannot control these elements (which they are always saying at every given opportunity. Well you know what boys, if you cannot take care of the problem we Indians can take care of it for you. Let’s call Pak’s bluff on this. Come to think of it, since Dawood and his ilk are not on Pak territory they will not even have to look the other way!!!!

  9. “But we have been asked to reflect”

    Sorry Nitin for getting offtrack with both my posts. I cannot think of any CBM and hence out came the venom. My apologies……..can’t wait to see what other people think.

  10. CBMs are more looking like a one way street. They do not wish to talk anything with us. Not even Kashmir. If a do a google search on this question, I think the search engine will collapse. It wont be able to find a single answer to this question. On a more serious note, where have the talks regarding MFN status to India gone? I dont know. Are they allowing Indian artists to perform there apart from raising money for Kashmir earthquake victims? I dont know. Are they deporting Dawood Ibrahim? No way, that’ll expose them completely.

    They are attacking us on different flanks by these jehadis (not even jehadis – spineless bombers). We cant be talking CBMs here. If a bug bites me. I dont teach it not to bite again. It would be foolish of me. I will simply crush it or if am not bothered, just tolerate the nuisance. You can edit the following part if you think I am a little rude here……They are trouble seekers and war mongers. It is built in their DNA. If ever humans were to evolve into pests, the first ones would undoubtedly be them.

  11. Umrao Jaan: very enjoyable rants! Agree with the targeted eliminations deal. When they talk about “Pakistani citizens” – all we need ask is Who?

    Nitin: I did reflect. Can’t think of any CBM that wasn’t so completely overshadowed by their acts of terror to be worth mentioning. Fruitless exercise I suspect.

  12. Nitin,

    Since we can’t do unto them what they do unto us for fear of losing moral highground (which is more important than lives of Indians) can we atleast send Himesh Reshmiyaa to Pakistan.

    Regards

    PS. On second thoughts can we send Mahest Bhatt also, I hate that guy

  13. Gaurav: Himesh, along with his squeaking chela will-walkout-if-Debojit-wins-Vineet. I’m completely huzoor-ed out 🙂 . Himani (and her sultry voice) is hot though.

    Nitin: apologies for completely silly OT stuff.

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