You are reading too much of “other half” (now deceased god rest its soul). You make two assumptions

1. “India Shining” guys dont care.
2. Just because “India whining” guys care (allegedly), it means something.

The thing is, “caring” doesn’t mean a thing. You can cry and wring your hands as much as you want over plight of oppressed, it is not going to change their situation. Only correct ideas are going to change the situation. And UN intervention is one hell of asinine idea.

1. I was thinking aloud and that is not a perfect scheme I had.

I expect there will be a difference between certification by people who genuinely find caste discrimination morally repugnant vs. those who implicitly believe in caste hierarchy and recognize and operate within caste boundaries on a day-to-day basis.

This first category of people may not be amenable to bribery to fake certificates. If it takes foreign intervention (by accredited UN agencies) to realize sufficient ppl in this category, I am Ok with it.

This is basically a vote of no-confidence in the current situation.

2. I found some shocking stories( google for “I am a Dalit how are you” or “the Shit economy”) and value their problems more than any false pride in a *Shining India*, thus I would be OK with screening that video in the UN General assembly for example.

Nitin has already made an indirect aspersion on the patriotism quotient in such activity (the Pak comparison). I would be OK with being labelled that way.

I realize there will be insignificant tangible benefit from such a screening. But getting *Shining Indians* apoplectic and into defensive denial will be worth it. Maybe out of 10 such guys, 1 or 2 will actually step back and try to do something about it.

That will be better than zero.

regards,
Jai

Good to know! Although on what grounds would those sanctions be sought, is quite unclear to me. Neither the Indian republic nor any of its states sanction any discrimination, as Nitin has noted.

Imagine an Indian company, maybe even Govt. or PSU entities, had to submit to some international certification that it did not discriminate on caste grounds to get these business opportunities.

Firstly, one would think most Indian businesses that engage in international trade or intend to do so wouldn’t be so foolish as to discriminate on grounds of caste. Corruption and nepotism is one thing, but institutionalised caste discrimination in PSUs? Remember, we are talking about corporations or businesses, not attitudes of individuals within them. Even if genuine bigots exist, they are aware of the consequences of being outed.

And certification? Every damn certificate has a price. Anyone can put in policies on paper, but real progress is measured by results. I don’t see too many black Americans on the cover of business publications even today. Saying so doesn’t make it so.

This is our problem, we have to find the answers on our own.

Maybe by the time Mayawati becomes India’s PM we will have a solution to this one too.

* agreement with Nitin:
– UN pressure doesnt directly help Dalits.
– caste discrimination by itself is an internal issue.
– extreme punitive measures can be counterproductive.

* disagreement with Nitin:

– comparison with Pakistani charges not warranted for the actions of those who appreciate UN activity on dalit issues. Any implicit charge of unpatriotism is unfair.

* agreement with (what I read as the stance of) PI:

– may help embarrass the Shining Indians who would perhaps like to sweep it under the carpet as an internal issue.
– may help hit Shining Indians where it hurts, business ties, foreign govt. contracts etc.

* General:

I am not thinking of across-the-board sanctions etc. Imagine an Indian company, maybe even Govt. or PSU entities, had to submit to some international certification that it did not discriminate on caste grounds to get these business opportunities.

I would like to compare not to apartheid but to the racial discrimination in southern USA. It amazes me that they undid that in about 40 years. You do need to ask yourself why nothing even remotely close has happened here in 60 yrs.

The US change happened from within and there is no direct substitute for it. Some international pressure will help though.

regards,
Jai

More seriously though, the remedy to this type of caste practice have to come from within Hinduism – no amount of UN speeches (and slamming and celebrations)and local laws will help. And for that everyone has to join in and do their part instead of standing on the outside and pointing fingers.

And this is one more case for rapid urbanization.

It is called SLIMes (Self Loathing Indian Mentality)

Regards