Movements that just won’t take off

Selective outrage

In his piece on the readiness with which people come out on the streets to protest against Israel, Mark Steyn writes:

Only Israel attracts an intellectually respectable movement querying its very existence. For the purposes of comparison, let’s take a state that came into existence at the exact same time as the Zionist Entity, and involved far bloodier population displacements. I happen to think the creation of Pakistan was the greatest failure of post-war British imperial policy. But the fact is that Pakistan exists, and if I were to launch a movement of anti-Pakism it would get pretty short shrift. [Mark Steyn/National Review]

20 thoughts on “Movements that just won’t take off”

  1. Beautiful!

    Have always been a Steyn admirer. The man has few pretensions for the insight, wit and perspicacity he brings.

    Steyn for PMO blog/speechwriter!

  2. Some of the other stuff Steyn writes, even if half-true, about the violent rampant anti-antisemitism in 21st century Europe is indeed jaw-dropping…. Shame on EU governments who’ve always been quick to decry social evils and discrimination in India with lofty words.

    The Jews have always been the canary in the European social coal mine. Expect major upheavals ahead…

  3. Just saw it…

    And the Gilani dude is at it again. Wants to play hardball, to the galleries and all. Heck, at least Musharraf had style.


    Like we used to say back in college, Hajaar true onlee.

  4. Anti-Pakism or questioning Pakistan’s existence won’t happen within India itself, by Indians themselves. We cannot blame anyone else!!

    I was arguing with a few in Orkut communities about similarities between Pakistan and Israel – both were created on religious lines, yet one’s right to existence is often questioned, while the other’s is taken for granted. Is it because Muslims are at the receiving end in the former case?

    Even though both are religious state, one has created a democratic free state, while the other a fascist failed theocratic state, though both were formed during the same timeframe. One is an economic and military powerhouse, beacon of democracy in ME while the other is an economic failure, rogue military state on the way to doom.

    Though many Jews from as far as Africa or Russia moved during/after formation of Israel, even many Muslims from as far as Southern parts of Indian sub-continent moved into Pakistan during its formation, erasing the argument that those in Pakistan were original inhabitants of those lands.

    If anything, we have to question the right of Pakistan’s existence more than Israel! But will this “tolerant yindoo” do this and throw more diplomatic shit on Pak’land or will yindoos keep submitting to the will of one god and get killed in more terror attacks to follow? Why the Commies never ever question Pakistan as much as they hate Israel?? Why do such obvious things don’t enter into minds of communists and their Islamist allies???

  5. I forgot to add what I finally wanted to add. After I pointed out similarities between Israel and Pakistan and that why only the former is constantly questioned ignoring the failure of latter, most people who opposed my thoughts and shut me up where “Indians” and especially “Hindus” [having known them personally, I know about their background too]

    I tend to conclude, Indian Hindus are their own enemies. We don’t need Jehadis to kill us. Our flawed history lessons and pseudo-secularism will dig us all largest secular grave on earth!!

  6. Venkat,
    The truth can be painful, isnt it? What do you think helped invading armies from the Persians, Mongols, Greeks, and British conquer India ?

    It was the effete and spineless “Yindoo” who are indeed their own worst enemies.

    What ever you think of the Palestinians or Pakistanis, they fight for what they believe rightfully belongs to them. OTOH, we produce Gandhi. Einstien was once supposedly caught saying that ” the world will never believe that there is a man like him”.

    In fact it was a huge stroke of luck that the Indian state even exists the way it does today. Just think about it for a second – if there was no Sardar Patel, we would have had the Islamic Republic of Hyderabad and Junagadh and what not.

    Mark Steyn is one of the most prescient guys around – Eurabia is indeed well on its way. Just look at the way the Muslim masses in Europe have reacted and how their governments have encouraged them to ?

    Just look at the coverage at the BBC or even CNN – the moral equivalence and political correctness is just staggering.

    Israel will always have the entire world against its existence. (except of course for the right wingers from the US who support it). Heck, it wasnt until PVN Rao, did we even recognize Israel.

  7. I’m glad that Europeans are getting a nice fulsome dose of Islamic eruptions in their midst. This is what they need and deserve, after having stroked the Islamic ego so vigorously. After so much stroking, such eruptions are the inevitable consequence. But after their constant bashing of India over its Islamic eruptions, it’s good to see the Europeans similarly covered in Islamic sauce, since sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

    Hopefully this will now sew the seeds of renewed political awakening in Europe, to deal with the mess they’ve created. Because otherwise they won’t know what to do as they’re confronted with this loud hungry mouth always wanting to be fed.

  8. Nagarajan Sivakumar

    Thanks for reminding we didn’t even recognize Israel till PVN changed it.

    I find that many of the world’s best economies were military power before. US, Germany, Japan, Britain, Russia were five major players in WW-II, and irrespective of who won or lost, all of them emerged as economic powers in the post-war period. More so Japan and Germany. Israel is a technological power despite having just Mumbai’s population. My guess is that this largely boils down to tendency of the society to take risks. If it is willing to risk war, its people are also likely to be open to taking risks in buissnes.

    And we had Gandhi.

  9. Israel is a colonial settler state and thus different from Pakistan.
    Also why should we not protest against the zionist oppression of Palestinians ?

  10. @ xyz

    Protest against “zionist oppression” may be fashionable, but if one desires to be fair, then role of Hamas should also be looked into.

    Hamas refuses to accept UN peace keeping force on Egypt-Gaza border. Hamas fired almost 6000 Quassam rockets into Israel during six-month ceasefire. At the end of ceasefire, Hamas unilaterally declared that it would not renew ceasefire with Israel!!!!!!!!!!

    End result is that Cairo, which had brokered the ceasefire last time, is reluctant to deal with Hamas this time around.

  11. >>Israel is a colonial settler state and thus different from Pakistan.

    Both are very similar. Muslims of pre-partition India demanded a separaete state from themselves, and got it. Jews of Palestine wanted a separate state for themselves and got it too. Israel has been existing as long as Pakistan has been, and proved itself far more successful as a nation-state than a failed Pakistan.

  12. Nagarajan
    Well said. Yes, we have been submitting for too long and even now during Mumbai incident many *intellectuals* argued our own justice, poverty etc were leading to terrorism!!! As long as flawed history is taught to our kids at school and as long as self-congratulating historians and intellectuals write opinion article in The Hindu, I think we shall continue to be spineless for long.

    “colonial settler state” lol. how easy to differentiate the two states based on a single phrase, yet discount the overwhelming similarities? Yet, Israel has proved to be a far better state when compared to rogue Pakistan.

    About Eurabia
    Muslims are misusing freedom of speech and expression available to them in secular European countries, unmindful of the fact such freedom is not available even to liberal Muslim in Islamic nations. Even within Israel, there have been anti-war protests!! Imagine walking in the streets of Islamabad with anti-Islam or anti-Pak banners!!

    Please search for Pallywood in Youtube and watch, if you haven’t yet!!

  13. INI Commentators –
    Guys, lay off the Gandhi bashing. It only puts him up on a pedestal more than he already is. He did what he did, we got our freedom, let him rest in peace.

    And lets move on. Gandhi and Nehru bashing really is useless.

    Oldtimer –
    I agree Pakistan is colonial in the sense that Indians are different ethnically as well as religiously, hence the contempt for Punjabi Pakistanis from Balochis, Sindhis, etc.

    But on the other hand, the do share Islam. So you have to consider that it may not be colonial in that sense.

    How is the formation of Israel any different from the Europeans taking away land from the Native Americans?

  14. Vakibs,
    One question. Have you ever met an Iranian ?

    If you have met them, you will quickly realize that they are very moderate. They are extremely proud of their ancient history and civilization, and do not subscribe to a pan-Islamic theology. In fact, they don’t need to do that (unlike Arabs), because Iranian civilization is much more ancient than Islam.

    Well, I roomed with an Iranian American for about 7 months – i worked with one of them for 6 – i’d say that they are more than moderate – they’d be pretty modern in my books. Does that satisfy you now ?

    Let me be clear – i have nothing against the Iranian population – yes, they are one of the most educated people in the entire Middle east. But their moderation stops when it comes to Israel.

    I have become tired of hearing how Iranian people are’nt really like their extremist mullahs – I knew that already

    But here’s what you refuse to acknowledge – it does’nt fricking matter. The Iranians have “adjusted” to living in a theocracy. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie Persepolis – it is made by an Iranian origin film maker. very moving movie. It shows the underground lives most young Iranians lead and how they have sucked it up.

    So, they are’nt exactly going to rise up and rebel against their Govt, and as you rightly predicted they would come to the defense of their Govt if they are attacked. So, what does all this mean ?

    It means that no matter how decent the people of Iran are, it does not matter in the end. They have lived with this s**thole Govt and are blase’ at best as to how their Government promotes terrorism as an instrument of state policy.

    Quit blaming the big bad American wolf for all of the middle east’s problems – most of their problems are self inflicted.

    “You should check with how much love Anvar Sadat has amongst the Egyptians. If Egypt holds democratic elections, the current dictator would be toppled immediately, and the government would be extremely hostile to Israel. In fact, it is very much the same sentiment across the entire Arab world. All these countries are dictatorships because of a simple reason : it suits the interests of USA and Israel if they are so.”

    I hate to ask you this, but have you lived with an Egyptian ? have you ever known one ?

    I agree with you that if open elections were held, Mubarak wouldnt stand a chance. But you entirely missed my point about Anwar Sadat. No matter how much the Egyptians hated him for doing it, he recognized Israel as a nation state and worked for a peaceful solution.

    He was very courageous to do that.

    Iran, OTOH is the principal sponsor of Hamas which is sworn to Israel’s destruction. And the moderate, decent, civilization loving people of Iran have no qualms about such a policy.

    You also seem to have forgotten the fact that the Iranian civilization predates Islam. Pankaj nails it when he reminds us how Islam replaced Zorastrianism in Iran.

    Those Zorastrians who still valued their faith and freedom fled Iran and came to …. guess which country ?? We still call them by the language they spoke – Parsis – as in people who speak Farsi.

    “As it currently stands, ensuring endemic hostilities between Israel and the Arabs suits the US interests. All the hell broke lose in Israel after a moderate president Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated.”

    Tell me again how US interests are served by keeping a conflict alive in the middle of a region which has the most oil supplies ? You obviously dont live in the US and you have no idea of how much interest people have in peace. Yes, the US is a steadfast ally of Israel but NO, that does not mean that it wants Israel to keep fighting with Hamas.

    The people who hold the chips are not reasonable . Iran does not want Hamas to accept a truce

    Go figure.

  15. xyz – we don’t criticize the chinese for what they have done/are doing to the tibetans and uighurs – even though they compete with us for influence in asia, africa and beyond, help pakistan militarily, not to mention, veto the security council resolution that would have declared the putative mastermind of terrorist attacks on india a terrorist.
    at times i wonder why the indian left doesn’t tear into china for their treatment of the uighurs at least? the only reason i can think of is that they must be unaware that the uighurs pray facing mecca? what else could it be, hmmmm?
    note to self – email arundhati roy and cc aparna sen. tell of uighur religion. teach chinese regime a lesson.

  16. Trilok, I don’t know who you are including in your “we” but some of us do criticise both China and Israel. And Pakistan for that matter.

  17. the french and the english know it well, as do the israelis and the ummah, the russians know it, as do we all. the only ones who don’t know it are the americans, but they are learning, and learning fast…..
    …even if israel vacated all the settlements, agreed to share jerusalem, settled with syria on golan heights, plus gave up a generous chunk of their remaining land mass to the palestinians, they (the israelis) still wouldn’t have permanent peace.

  18. Trilok,
    Even if israel vacated all the settlements, agreed to share jerusalem, settled with syria on golan heights, plus gave up a generous chunk of their remaining land mass to the palestinians, they (the israelis) still wouldn’t have permanent peace.

    Neo-conservatives in the US understand that all too well. They some times seem to understand it better than Israelis themselves ! But here in lies the tragedy of Israel or specifically its creation.

    The biggest claim that Israeli’s have to the land is ancestral – they used to live in the area two millenia’s back. After being hounded out of Europe and being treated with suspicion practically every where they lived, they decided that no matter what it took, they needed a home land. And what better place than to go back “home”….

    The only problem was that “their home” was now home to Arabs – millions of them. The UN deicided that the best course of action was to partition the land into two countries – not a perfect solution and for the Arabs an absolutely bad one. The rest is ofcourse history – the Arabs fought to drive out the Jewish population – the Jews fought back even more ferociously.

    Most Arabs have not come to terms with the notion of a Jewish state – which is why they have made no secret of their sheer hatred of Israel or their intentions to destroy it. They also know that the demographics favor them over the coming decades.

    Israelis know this as well – there settlements are nothing more than a vain attempt to make sure that they are not going to be crowded out in a country where there are about a million Arabs.

    I feel bad for the innocents caught up on both sides. I feel terrified that Hamas is leading the charge for one of them. Will Israel exist the way it is today 30 years from now ?? I highly doubt it.

  19. @BOK,
    Thanks for pointing out that my comments were indeed meant for another thread.

    My apologies.

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