Brickbat to the editor
A picture and many strong words
In the January 2010 issue of Pragati, accompanying an article titled “Telangana Liberated”, we published the following photograph.
March and Dharna against Operation Green Hunt - Bharath Margabandu
This image is part of a series of photographs taken by Bharath Margabandu on a protest march against Operation Green Hunt, the Indian government’s new security initiative against the Naxalite movement. We didn’t know (and didn’t care) who the persons in the photographs are. We chose the photograph because, in our judgement, it is relevant to the article alongside which it was published.
This morning we got an email from a Dr Ashley Tellis from the Indian Institute of Technology, Hyderabad (not the well-known Washington-based international relations scholar). We produce the email exchange in full and leave readers to arrive at their own judgements.
From: ashley tellis
Date: 2010/1/27
Subject: Photograph
To: pragati@…Dear Sir/Madam,
I write to register my surprise at your profound stupidity. In the article ‘Telangana Liberated” (wrongly spelt in your Highlights section at least online, so please change it) by Ram Yadav ( a former DGP of AP, which shows just how “fresh” and “bold” your magazine is) in the latest issue of your pathetic, right-wing rag of a magazine, you carry a picture of me in an APCLC march against Operation Greenhunt in Hyderabad.
The march had nothing to do with Telangana, your article has nothing to do with Operation Green Hunt and the poster I am carrying has nothing to do with your article. It says (for non-Telugu readers) “Murderers of Adivasis in the forest/ The forced occupation of the natural resources by MNCs and Operation Green hunt Opposition Committee”. It says nothing about Naxalites or about Telangana and to carry this photograph with this raving and ranting rightwing article which shows the mindset of a five year old with a war video game is nothing short of ridiculous. The march was and is against the killing of tribals by people like Mr. Yadav through a fascist “operation” like Green”hunt.” The march had no position on Naxalites or on Telangana. Please get some basic facts right and learn to read a photograph before you carry it.
Please grow up and if you can’t carry a decent article at least carry a relevant photograph, you sad and sorry idiots.
Dr. Ashley Tellis
Department of Liberal Arts
Indian Institute of Technology, Hyderabad
Estamos en la lucha
From: Nitin Pai
Date: 2010/1/27
Subject: Re: Photograph
To: ashley tellisDear Prof Tellis,
Thank you for your email. If you permit, we would like to publish it on our website.
regards
Nitin
(via Mobile)
From: ashley tellis
Date: 2010/1/27
Subject: RE: Photograph
To: nitin.pai@..Please do. That was the whole point in sending the email to you.
Estamos en la lucha
From: Nitin Pai
Date: 2010/1/27
Subject: Re: Photograph
To: ashley tellisThank you.
We treat all correspondence as private by default. That’s the reason I asked.
Regards
Nitin
(via Mobile)
From: ashley tellis
Date: 2010/1/27
Subject: RE: Photograph
To: nitin.pai@..There is no such thing as private. Everything in the world is public. The stupidity of your magazine is a prime example.
Estamos en la lucha
Note: We have edited out the email addresses to protect everyone’s privacy, including Dr Tellis’s
[...] Update: Correspondence related to this article [...]
As a Telugu speaker, I should say this photo is unrelated to the topic of your discussion.. But it is quite evident that Mr Ashley Tellis has a lot of sympathy for the left-wing cause.. I don’t know your official policy on national-interest.. but isn’t it supposed to be politically neutral, at least in theory ?
Before I decide. Allow me to get your side of the story. I read the article in the print version of Pragati and reserve my comments.
How is the photo of a protest against “green hunt” relevant to the article in question? Could you be more specific when you say “in our judgement”? What was it that made you relate the two?
AB
Angry, stupid prof! He is living on public money, teaching in a public univ and asking for all things be public. And what is that stupid signature at the bottom, some people do not graduate out of their PhD days, man!
The photo is a matter of judgement but the professor is downright rude. Can’t imagine how someone can go on a tirade like that against a perfect stranger.
As for everything being public, well, I think his political views are clear. He is marching under a Communist flag after all.
Btw, doesn’t the other photo in the series show Gadar, the balladeer who supports Naxalites?
I am unable to grasp the meaning of word “Fascist”. It is being used as a bad word for any-one who doesnt seem to agree with you.
Besides I dont understand what exactly is Mr. Tellis’ grievance. Is it that that the contents of article he dint like? Or is that he dint like a possibly wrong photograph at wrong place? Or both?
Or he just hates anybody who disagrees to his views?
People who use terms like “Stupid”, “Idiot”, “Fascist” etc. to describe others usually exemplify those terms.
Et tu pragati?
You say ….. “We didn’t know (and didn’t care)”
Says a lot about the “judgement” that you exercised when deciding on it’s relevance. I guess the thought process was – “yipee! It’s got red flags and words in Telugu… let’s use it in an article on Naxalism in Telangana.”
On a side note – If you don’t care who the folks in the image are – why maintain a charade of “privacy”? Sounds contradictory.
The photograph is completely relevant to the article. The article talks about the link between Telangana and Naxalites, something which is very apparent in the Telangana agitation in Telangana villages and towns these days. The Telangana agitators and the Naxalites obviously perceive mutual benefits by cooperating in the Telangana agitation. The article more or less speaks of the same.
So what if the placards in the photograph talk about Operation Green Hunt? It is quite obvious that the individuals who are carrying the placards are staunch Naxalite sympathizers. The tone of Dr. Ashley Tellis’ outburst against the editor of Pragati has confirmed the same. I find it sad and unfortunate that people who sympathize with organized criminals who are destroying schools and threatening teachers, are educating the engineers of tomorrow.
I gotta say… The Professor was very rude. But he does have a point. Protesting against whathe alleges to be politically motivated slaughterings does not amount to a rejection of wiping out Naxalism or supporting it.
The IIT professor is not logically consistent. Why is he surprised at the profound stupidity of people who he says are sad and sorry idiots?
“profound stupidity” – Now that is an oxymoron that I have never heard!
“in our judgement, it is relevant to the article alongside which it was published.” – I would appreciate if you could clarify this statement. In fact this is the statement that you need to clarify with Dr.Tellis.
“Please grow up and if you can’t carry a decent article at least carry a relevant photograph, you sad and sorry idiots.” – ouch….
Nitin Pai sahab time to eat some humble pie ?
“There is no such thing as private. Everything in the world is public.”
By that rule every private opinion is public opinion. Now I get the logic behind all the people who support Naxalites.
Also, every public opinion is the private opinion of elite. That is how people Naxalite supporters denounce public opinion isnt it ?
Looks like Prof has not undergone any EQ coaching!! Pity. To display such harsh words in public domain.!! I feel sorry for his students who would imbibe his behavior. Thank god I never had such professors!! Of course 25 years back teaching standards were different!!…
Karthik
Bangalore.
the left stand on naxalism is based on the hypocrisy that “naxals can kill any number of people for a movement we support, but since we are not doing the actual killing, we are not to be blamed.”
this thin hypocrisy line must be maintained at all costs. not surprising that this Professor has sought to protect it. but I think he could have done it with a lot more finesse.
the professor shud perhaps learn from Late K. Balagopal. he wud put so much spin and humor into tales of murder that, one might think the policemen who die defending the civil society against these leftwing killers, are infact going to wake up and head home at the end of the movie.
By the way When did IIT HYD come in to existence? I knew of 5 IITs that is it. Pardon my ignorance!!….
The CPI-ML’s official position on Green Hunt is far more nuanced than this pathetic professor makes out to be. They do not make the case that resource grab is behind the operation. Just that the costs in civil rights are unacceptable.
The professor has a distinct anti-capitalist agenda and he is using “adivasi murders” as a red herring. A truly despicable person.
Why cannot the professor at least engage in a logical discussion as to why he things magazine is stupid and people running are idiots, if he thinks so. or he could have wrote a rebuttal to the article.. Isn’t that the idea ?
Standing for Truth in India is not easy and smooth.. and blaming some one right wing or hindutwa is the easiest way to establish your position are secular, liberal and therefore by default right. This trick is usually and often employed in India when they are out of arguments or facts.Not sure whats the motivation though.
[...] As an alumnus of the Indian Institute of Technology system, it was distressing to see this e-mail from a member of faculty employed with IIT [...]
Amusing. The prof does have a minor point alright but why did he have to froth at the mouth like that? Must be having a bad day I guess.
Just shows that Pragati has a diverse reader demographic.
The photo does seem not-so-relevant to the article, but thanks for the opportunity to get to know this guy. It’s amusing to watch people like Tellis (esp. Communists!) throw around words like “fascists” as part of everyday conversations.
Check out this article from the New Ind Exp… esp the comments (inc Tellis’ responses)
Clearly this guy is incapable of civilized conversations and indulges in ad hominem attacks at the drop of a hat; but it’s fun to watch. One is his replies to comments for the articles:” “And if this sick humanbeing thinks there is anything that the public really needs to know about his life let him say so.” —deleted— The NIE should stop publishing maniacal abuisve sick letter writers like you not article writers who want to generate debate and discussion.” Oh, the irony of it all!
Nitin: Regarding Note: We have edited out the email addresses to protect everyone’s privacy, including Dr Tellis’s.
I think you were bring too nice there especially when Herr Professor was quite willing to be at the receiving end of things..
[...] when I read this email exchange between a certain Professor Ashley Tellis and Nitin earlier this evening, I merely smiled. I [...]
I wonder what will Dr. Tellis’ students think of him once they come to know of such uncivilized outbursts of their professor. Being myself an alumnus of one of the better known IITs, I can only feel sad at the bleak future of the IITs and its students.
How can get this in mainstream media or start some sort of media campaign to
have this guy prosecuted for such articles in Newspaper ?? and what happened to Indian Express..Where is the regulatory body for newspapers..what sort of country have we become to advocate such things in the name of liberal arts..
His name is Ashley Tellis. In my quick reading I skipped the part that he is not THE Ashley Tellis who needs no introduction. For a moment I kept staring at the pic, unable to recognize Ashley the awesome. And then I came back to the post and it struck me- Damn! This is someone else!
Regarding his e-mail, must say this man is contributing to the diversity of the human gene pool from the lowest-most band of the IQ spectrum. Had he been a random guy, he could be ignored. But man he is a Prof! And that too in IIT, where, as an IITian myself I can tell you, on a scale of 1 to 10, students know -1 wrt liberal arts. So he is dangerous- indoctrinating gullible kids. Like the guy who opined tweet-is-a-very-lonely-man, his rant has potential to turn into a caricature invoking further ridicule. What to do? Laugh or have pity on him?
Hi all,
Please do not post any personal attacks against Dr Tellis on this forum: I have deleted a few comments that only do so.
This post discusses his comment on the photograph and the article concerned—anything else is extraneous and off-topic.
In connection with Mr Tellis, I am having a debate over at Offstumped. You are all cordially invited to join in.
Nitin,
By the way, have you invited Dr. Tellis to be a part of this discussion.
Propriety demands that he be made aware of the discussion that his emails have generated.
(Of course, it would also be more fun to have him here. But that’s beside the point.
)
As I see it, Dr. Tellis’ e-mail makes two points:
1. The photo printed with the article is not relevant to the subject discussed in the article. As a Telugu-speaker myself, I see some truth here. The only (tangential) connection I could make was the article’s reference to overtly operating left-leaning groups.
2. He thinks Ram Yadav’s views on Naxals are biased merely because he served as AP’s DGP, and calls the piece a “raving and ranting rightwing article”. Given Dr. Tellis’ sympathies (from the photo at least), his views are not surprising. Of course the language in the mails is unbecoming of a university professor
Agree with Chaitanya that the photo is relevant but tangential, like the rest of the images. Sometimes I have to stare at them for a couple of minutes to get the hang of it. (What was a green door with a rusty Nav-Tal lock doing in an article on India’s climate change policy, in one of the recent issues? Get it?)
This exchange is a typical example of what passes for ‘civilised’ and informed debate in this country. A lawyer friend informs me of his professor’s advice in law school, ‘argument weak? shout and scream and froth at the mouth!’
How predictable that stupidity in Pragati (which should be renamed Durgati) is accompanied by arrogance. They don’t just not care who is in the photograph, they have a “judgement” which they will not offer the criteria of, do not bother to discuss, and will not be humble enough to admit could have been utterly wrong. With magazines like this, who needs rightwing political parties?
They claim to have edited my email out to maintain my privacy but leave my signature address on making it easy to get my email address and write shit to me at my personal/official emails 9no shortage of Indians with internet access and no work in life) that at least one sad human being has done.
They believe all mail is “personal,” yet they invite mail from readers and put up ALL my mails without my permission (I only said yes to the first). What do they do with these letters? Put them in cold storage? Or maybe they get none because no one reads the rag they bring out except other rightwing people who agree with them and therefore feel no need to send letters.
Finally, they claim they do not accept letters of abuse against me but nevertheless print several. Is this a forum for an argument and debate or just abuse/ I use strong language, yes, but back it up with reasons as to why I think someone is stupid.
Anyway, enough about these idiots. Let me respond to at least some of the readers who bothered to have a point instead of doing what Indians do best, which is fart in public, offering opinions that are unsolicited and unremarkable in their utter meaninglessness, apart from terrible odour they give out:
@Vakibs Yes, it is quite obvious that I have Left sympathies or why would I agree to participate in an APCLC dharna? However, in the Telugu scene, I am more HRF than APCLC, largely because HRF also offers a critique of Naxal violence and excess and APCLC does not (however, I am a not a member of either). So, left-leaning sympathy does not mean Naxalism. What it does mean, however, is that I am not going to be comfortable being put in a right-wing article attacking Telangana (I am firmly pro-Telangana) especially on the basis of some stupid non-analysis by some dumbass, fascist policeman that claims that Telangana will be run by Naxalites! Left-leaning also means that I am against violence on adivasis and Dalits, whether by the state (men like Yadav) or the Greyhounds brutally raping, killing and disappearing poor people, or by the Naxalites, who can often do the same. However, the Naxalites are as sick players as any other, so I do not see why they should be singled out for special treatment. The only difference between the Naxalites and any other political party is that the Naxalites openly believe in violence. Political parties do too but do it on the sly. In some sense, then, the Naxalites are more honest. But they are hated by the state because the state is directly threatened by them and their violence. But the state has no critique of its own violence. Mr. Yadav has no critique of the state’s hand-in-glove machinations with corporations which produce forces like the Greyhounds which rape and kill ordinary people and hate Naxalites because the Naxalites are spoiling their pillage party.
I would suggest that you and the fools at Durgati spend some time in these areas before you shoot off your mouths on positions you know little or nothing about. If you share the basic aggressive and unthinking nationalism of Durgati, we have nothing more to say to each other. If you want to examine what Left-leaning or Left sympathies really means, read what I have written carefully and go spend some time in these areas and see what the people are really suffering and who is causing it. Let me finally add that if one has to rate and scale (which one has to) the violence on ordinary Dalits and adivasis in the region, then the violence done by the state is much more than the Naxalites. The state is the bigger criminal who along with corporations (mainly mining in the Maoist corridor which Arundhati Roy rightly calls the MOUist corridor) is destroying the land and the people, not the Naxalites who are small in number, lack sophisticated weaponry and don’t have state and big bucks backing at all. Durgati will never carry an article about the truth in the area because it is firmly a rightwing think tank which believes in “national interest.” Yadav is constitutionally incapable of writing the truth because he is a violent player in the game and can’t talk about state and police corruption. Why doesn’t Durgati carry an article by an independent, Left-leaning political analyst if they care about fairness and the truth and boldness and whatever bullshit they go on about? Did you see their issue on the “Naxal problem”? I’ve never read this rag till this issue and certainly will not read it again. I have better things to read in my life and I hope you do too.
One thing for sure, Mr Tellis did not bargain for the scrutiny that he will be put under for having frothed at the mouth about the picture in a Pragati article. He would wish he had not opened his foul mouth.
Estamos en la lucha, says Mr Tellis.
“We are in the fight.” More than you expected to be in, eh Mr A Tellis?
Not sure what induces more pathos, Dr. Tellis’ flowery rebukes or responses in the comments section here, the Offstumped post or Seriously Sandeep post.
Dr. Tellis is not beholden to mainstream views but this firestorm, calls to fire him and such seem totally unjustified.
@AB Thanks for asking the question that Pragati has refused to answer
@Udayan That is not Gaddar. Many cultural performers from the Telangana region dress like him and perform like him. Gaddar was not at the dharna. Many other powerful performers were. And, yes, I am a Communist. Do you have a problem with that? If so, deal with it.
@Akshar I use fascist advisedly. I use it for Yadav’s article which justifies police and state violence. He congratulates himself in the first few paragraphs of his fascist article on the quelling of what he thinks is naxalim. I guess raping adivasi women, beating, killing and sisppearing ordinary tribals is something one does need to congratulate oneself about? If that is not fascist, what is?
@Pseuochomsky, thanks for raising questions once again Pragati can’t and will not answer.
@Chaitanya, I feel equally sad and unfortunate about you because you can’t see who the really organized criminals are in AP (which is the Greyhounds and the state) and because you can’t even read an article for what it is saying and see the irrelevance of the accompanying image? Have you thought of remedial English classes?
@RK. Idiots one is used to, the profundity of some is surprising.
@Pradeep, oxmorons stress a point. Thanks for your question to Pragati. No answer yet from them.
@Akshar, you are tying yourself in knots and the lack of your logic is quite profound. There is no such thing as a private letter sent to an editor. Privacy is also an issue with many dangers, as feminists, for example, have pointed out. If a man talks about women’s rights in public but goes home and beats his wife, there’s a problem there. So, in my world there is nothing private. Hope that is clear. The leaps you make from my assertion are not worth engaging because they make no sense. You figure them out yourself.
@Balaji I hope my longer earlier post on Naxalism would have made my position clear. As for your extremely uncharitable and pathetic swipe at Balagopal, you are factually incorrect, among other things. The whole point of Balagopal’s leaving APCLC and forming HRF was over the question of Naxal violence and excess. Balagopal always stated that and criticised naxal violence and excess. Also, all the writings toward the end of his life talk about accountability of/in the movement. You show no respect for one of the finest political analysts this country has ever seen and a recently dead man. You should be ashamed of yourself.
@Trickey I think the point you raise is interesting. I think you should develop it into an article and send it to Pragati. Let’s see if they have the guts to carry it. As for my “using” adivasi deaths as a red herring, you know nothing about my politics or my activism so learn some of it or you end up sounding despicable yourself.
@Suraj The irony, alas, is lost on you. I guess your idea of irony matches Alanis Morrisette’s. Look up the definition in a dictionary.
My articles for the Sexualities page in NIE have come up, I have been denounced, homophobic nastiness about me being “at the receiving end” (how pathetic and sad are men who think that to receive is an act of denigration. I pity their girlfriends and wives who they humiliate every day with this ideology when they have sex with them) are published on this page. I do not want to get into those debates here as this is, as Nitin has pointed out, a forum for a discussion on this article and this photograph. People are welcome to write letters and articles to NIE on that issue and I am willing to respond and have a public debate on it there.
Btw – Nitin. Agree with Pragati’s choice of picture. There is a fundamental disagreement among people of Dr. Tellis’ persuasion in the picture, and others about where the boundaries of the state’s supremacy, the actions it can take to protect its interests, etc. lie.
Wow! I did not realize that there is actually a real Ashley Tellis from IIT Hyderabad — I just assumed it was someone trolling under the name of the Indian-American who is a strategic expert.
Whoa – i could not have been more thrilled but the self-styled intellectuals in this country are more exciting than the neanderthals of medieval times who went around burning innocent women as witches.
of course the neanderthals had a good reason to burn these women. for one – these women possibly threatened their intelligence and authority
the most pathetic thing here is that these intellectuals and their very intellectual words don’t have a single argument but rants of senility
I think all the elite educational institutes have missed their point. woe is me. Despite the colleges Indians remain uneducated. literate -yes, uneducated -no
cheerio
Dr Tellis,
I do not wish to respond to your opinions.
I do find it strange, ironic and not a little amusing that you should complain about the complete exchange being published after you contended that “nothing in the world is private. Everything in the world is public.”
If you stand by your assertion, then you shouldn’t complain on any private correspondence being made public.
But since you have already complained that private correspondence was made public without permission, you have either changed your mind or exhibited a logical inconsistency.
Ashley,
You said you are pro-Telangana. You didn’t say whether you are pro- or anti-Naxalites. Can you give us a simple yes/no answer?
I was wrong in a previous comment where I wrote that Mr Tellis “would wish he had not opened his foul mouth.” True to his motto of being in the fight, he has joined the fight.
The tone of the discussion was set by him — acrid, acerbic, aggressive, abusive, authoritarian, (and I am still only on A’s) . . .
Pragati may or may not have erred in publishing that picture. I can’t tell as I don’t understand the article. But Mr Tellis could have civilly pointed out what in his opinion was wrong about publishing that picture to the editor, and matters would have proceeded along the lines that they usually do when errors are pointed out to an editor.
The editor of Pragati is as polite, civilized, intelligent, and thoughtful as editors come. He is not a raving right-wing lunatic. Pragati has an ideological stance but it is not blind, deaf and dumb. It takes a reasoned stance on issues and welcomes debate. Content on Pragati reflects the thoughtful stance of its many competent contributors.
(Full disclosure: I have had the privilege of writing for Pragati. I am fairly good but nowhere as goods the editor or the others on Pragati. I should also stress that I am fairly vain and I don’t believe in the charade of false modesty. I say it like I see it.)
Mr Tellis admits that he has only read one issue of Pragati and won’t read any more. Fine. But his generalizations about Pragati expressed harshly can only be hasty and his conclusions premature. He would have been well advised to keep his conclusions to himself and just address himself to the issue of what was wrong with the printing of that picture.
Having set that unfortunate tone, Mr Tellis provoked a reaction from readers of The Acorn and Offstumped that reflected that tone.
I am not averse to using harsh language myself. But when I do, I am not the least bit surprised when others use the same tone to reply tome. What I find inconsistent in Mr Tellis’ position is that he is ready to give but not all that willing to receive when it comes to gratuitous abuse.
If he had avoided abuse and stuck to the subject, he would have been justified in rebuking those who abuse him needlessly. I think he has burnt that bridge. People who live in glass houses, as they say . . .
Earlier today I have been at pains to defend the concept of free speech because some have been (mistakenly, in my not so humble opinion) saying that Mr Tellis should be prohibited from expressing views such as he did in a newspaper column.
Free speech is our primary instrument since we value ideas. Those who cannot win the battle of ideas with a pen are the ones who are forced to descend to censorship — and worse, use a sword. Let’s not be too hasty and surrender our most powerful weapon: free words expressing ideas of a free people.
i read his emails twice and still dont understand what he’s so upset about.
I dunno about you guys, but I find it interesting that the IIT has a “Department of Liberal Arts”.
And I find it appalling that my tax rupees goes to fund people like Mr. Ashley Tellis, in a public institution. Its ghastly that someone who claims to speak for the disadvantaged doesnt know of any better way to voice an opinion than froth at the mouth – especially at someone with an opposing view – and then teaches liberal arts at the IIT.
By the by – Just Behind Mr. Tellis (in the snap) is a hoarding that refers to the CPI-ML. Arent they same ones that merged with PWG to become the CPI – Maoists?
Udayan,
The Green Door, probably symbolises the green issues, a door behind which lies the balanced ecological needs and the locked door says, there is a struggle to go beyond this point. It is meant to explain the agony of an environmentalist, who is waiting for the mental blocks of Governments and Corporates to open up, so that he can get down to doing his job.
I haven’t seen the article and the photograph under discussion, but from your remark this is what I make out. Looked little obvious to me.
Nitin, please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards,
Piyush
I am truly appalled at the number of people wondering on various forums/twitter etc. that IIT has a Liberal Arts department. FYI, All IITs have Humanities and Social Sciences departments. Is it so surprising? And I suppose most of the engineering colleges do have some form of “Arts” in their curriculum. Why should an engineering graduate be deprived of the minimal education of these subjects which include literature, history of sciences, social/environmental etc. issues depending upon ones choice of interests is beyond me.
And secondly, though I feel sad that a professor from IIT is degrading himself by using such uncivil language, I would rather not judge his work based on his comments and the views he holds. I feel people are too quick to judge and comments like “Why am I paying for his salary?” seem totally shallow.
Einstein had said that Communism is like Religion. So true.
People like Mr. Tellis, just like Christian Missionaries of Islamic terrorist strongly believe that the TRUTH is revealed only to them, that they are at a higher level than rest of the crowd and ONLY THEY know the truth. Like ONLY they are correct. The basis for their belief is “nothing”. They will never provide any logical proof, they will not provide any factual data. Instead as soon as you try to engage them in a dialog, debate conforming to your own sense of civility, they will immediately term you as Fascist, Idiots, Arrogant, Farting in Public and so on.
Communists and their religious counterparts believe that the common man (any man who is confused and likely to fall pray to their designs) needs to be enlightened with their version of truth. Anyone like Pragati, is a big hurdle in-between and hence they feel compelled to throw mud at Pragati and it’s editor. Just like Swami Laxamanand was killed in Orissa or just the way Taslima Nasreen was made to run away from her home and India.
I am surprised that how come Mr. Tellis did not jump to conclusion that Editor of Pragati, or the whole Pragati magazine is paid by some Multinational, Capitalist, Fascist etc. ? That Acorn is a “CIA” agent or has interest in some Tribal Land etc.
I dont see much use in arguing with Mr. Tellis as an individual because, to use the same kind of language as MR. Tellis, it is like arguing with a Pig in the mud, it is too late when you realize that when you were getting dirty the Pig was actually enjoying it.
Any ways readers of Pragati got glimpses of kind of problems that anyone who works for National Interest has to face and population density of these people is very high in influential positions.
My comments about the public private thing was a silly Poor joke dint expect anyone to take it seriously.
But now you complaining about making the email public is even more sillier joke.
Dear Mr. Tellis,
I quote from one of your posts here:
“What it does mean, however, is that I am not going to be comfortable being put in a right-wing article attacking Telangana (I am firmly pro-Telangana) especially on the basis of some stupid non-analysis by some dumbass, fascist policeman that claims that Telangana will be run by Naxalites!”
Last I remember, BJP, a Right Wing party, has given unconditional support to the issue of Telangana and has questioned the Congress Govt.’s method in resolving this matter. The right wing political party of this country has been categorical that they support the idea of smaller states. They have also by accepting this showcased two important things:
1. State govts. are unable to manage larger states and a large section of the society gets overlooked in policies and, therefore, remains under-privileged. Such a position is unacceptable. If the country is growing prosperous at certain level, then mechanism for deployment of benefits to all has to be devised and creation of smaller states may offer that solution.
2. There may be a problem of Naxaliites in some of these areas, but the govt. is in a position to deal with the violence perpetrated by such body of people. It is simply a question of willingness. It is such a violent situation that creates an excuse for unconstitutional freedom to certain personnel within law enforcement agencies, which ultimately leads to certain crimes that you have mentioned time and again. If there is a political will to fight such terrorists and a policy of uplifting the underpriveleged sections of the society in a certain region, then this law and order situation can also be brought under control. And the right-wing party of India has the willingness to solve these issues.
Jharkhand, Uttaranchal and Chhatisgarh were created within 3 months of the NDA govts. nod. You can check the records for that.
So, as far as the issue of Telangana is concerned, I don’t expect you to blame the right-wing parties for that.
It is public knowledge that Rayalseema and Costal Andhra portion of Andhra Pradesh is not in favor of Telangana and Congress is offering all possible administrative support to such an opposition. BJP, the right wing party, has communicated to Congress (which is in central govt.) that they can count on BJP.
But if Congress has a different agenda, then, people such as you should blame Congress and not the right-wing parties.
As far as the article is concerned, it is DGP Yadav’s view. Like you, he also has the right to share his views, right or wrong doesn’t matter. And by the way, right-wing parties have never ruled Andhra Pradesh and, therefore, can hardly be blamed for police atrocities, if any. I am very sure that you must ask these questions to TDP and Congress who have shared the state amongst themselves.
And since you are against violence anyway, why don’t you shed the violence in your words too. Else, you are anyway your own boss.
@Ashley Tellis,
It is news to me to find IIT professors jumping down into the mud, waging flame-wars and slinging insults online. India is surely growing up !!
I think you are right in demanding your photograph to be withdrawn, but you shouldn’t have vent your anger and resort to random name-calling, unless you want to earn yourself the status of a notorious internet celebrity. I am not sure of your intentions, but I trust you are a smart man. Otherwise you wouldn’t be working at IIT. Being a doctor of social sciences, I believe you understand the difference between fascism and nationalism.
I think Nitin is a very decent guy, and you should apologize to him immediately for calling him (amongst other things) fascist, stupid, arrogant etc. If you bother to read some other posts on this blog, you’d have seen that Nitin has argued for the legitimization of prostitution. I think he believes in fundamental liberties of human beings, and would have struck a chord with you on your LGBT agenda (I suspect). You might be abusing your stereotype glasses a bit too much, which is very unbecoming for an academician.
.. what Indians do best, which is fart in public, offering opinions that are unsolicited and unremarkable in their utter meaninglessness, apart from terrible odour they give out: ..
Specifically, I object to your stereotyping of my countrymen, which I find very demeaning and crude.
@Prasanna,
I dunno about you guys, but I find it interesting that the IIT has a “Department of Liberal Arts”.
It is very important that technical universities have departments of fine arts and liberal arts. We are all human beings who need to have rounded personalities.. Don’t generalize your opinions on one specific individual (Dr. Tellis, here) to all the academicians in humanities.
@Ashley Tellis,
Would you bother reading this ?
@Ashley Tellis, @Nitin Pai @Ram Yadav
Although I am not an academic or a policy analyst I have written what I believe is a rational critique of Mr Yadav’s article. I have also touched upon the conversation in this thread.
It might be of interest.
This chap is obviously an attention seeker. He is the unknown Ashley Tellis, lurks in the Liberal Arts department of a popular technology institute, and claims to be gay. Now thanks to Nitin and Acorn, he has managed to get the attention of a few thousand people. And thanks to Pragati’s error, he even has managed to have his photograph published.
Liberal arts must be the only course in a technology institute that has people expressing opinions and not facts.
The only thing right abt what Ashley Tellis has said is the gross exploitation and land caused by the MNCs. We are truly letting a wholesale theft of our resources happen and there is no doubt that the tribals are being coerced into that much like Congo in Africa.
The current Indian state is very MNC oriented and I believe that is bad for all of us because raw materials are being shipped out at dirt cheap prices, never to come back whereas PSUs like SAIL are starving for them. Of course the margins are going into the pockets of the bureaus.
To that extent Ashley Tellis is right and we need voices to spk for the Indians who have no voice – which includes the Adivasis and majority Indians btw.
The Naxals are another poison out to get the same resources and people. They need to be crushed because they represent another government.
Problem is huge and while certainly don’t need another genocide suzie, we need more people to see these MNCs ffor what they are. Hardly capitalist, more feudalistic – continuing the tradition of the Cecil Rhodes and East India COmpanies of the world.
However, unfortunately, I cannot support Ashley Tellis because of his personal views. They are just wrong. Absolutely wrong. As a sanatani, I guess it is not evil but error. However, it is the grossest error. And unfortunately, they colour everything.
On the point of liberal arts, it is time we as a nation start tapping into our own traditional liberal arts traditions. I don’t understand why we have to copy western systems – right wing, left wing, communism etc. As an old, old civilization we have plenty of systems which people need to explore. And yes, we need all streams of thinking. India was flourishing when thought was open.
I am glad that eng. schools are thinking of liberals arts because we in India have a gross shortage in the social sciences. These are the people who make nations and for whatever reasons our people run into eng. & Medicine which is well and good but majority will not become drivers of the country and will continue to import ideas from outside because original thought is absent.
Note the excessive use of right wing and left wing in a complex land as India. It is truely an injustice to the different shades of thought that exist. However, plenty of intelligent folks fall into the trap including the writers of Pragati.
>>To that extent Ashley Tellis is right and we need voices to spk for the Indians who have no voice – which includes the Adivasis
This is humbug. The adivasis do have a voice. Check this out
If you are going to allege that the above is an MNC conspiracy, please provide evidence as to which MNC (McDonalds? Kentucky Fried Chicken?) was behind it all.
Dr. Tellis –
I’ve been reading your replies to the comments posted. Granted, your photo wasn’t relevant to the article, at least imho.
Your responses to criticism – calling your critics fools or idiots or making generalizations (e.g. “…instead of doing what Indians do best, which is fart in public, offering opinions that are unsolicited and unremarkable…”) are quite amusing, to say the least.
Your words look like the rants of an ideologue than the considered views of an academic. Much as I respect your right to free speech, you seem to go off balance a bit too easily. Especially for an academic.
@oldtimer,
Check those details behind the MOUs filed and you will have an answer. Also look at the owndership structure of these MNCs and you will know how many oldtimers exist (pun unintended).
That stone throwing episode is hardly a voice. The adivasis are caught between a rock and a hard place. And they are our people. Your people, my people.
I hope that we will not end up with case studies and papers done on us the way they are done for Africa. Read below
All diamonds are blood diamonds
The truth about the diamond trade link
N
I second what you say, especially about liberal arts in technical places and the need for indigenous descriptors in the social sciences. The borrowed nomenclatures miss out a lot of the Indian reality and are unnecessarily polarizing.
Btw I personally think IITs are overhyped even as technological institutions, providing little or no quality research.
As for Dr. Tellis, had he been a little less hostile and had his life issues sorted out, he could have been worth a listen. I do get his point that Pragati writers sometime appear like schoolboys excited over new wargames.
regds
“why-am-i-paying-for-ashley-tellis-salary” – of course for teaching liberal arts in IIT Hydbad . I am really amazed by this line of questioning. Does the professor has an obligation on top of his teaching assignments, is he not entitles to have a political opinion.
Ashley,
Dude, what is with the attitude? Especially on the comments in the pederasty article someone here linked to. For a moment I thought they were fake, but then realized not so.
The edginess of finding an academic defending pederasty in a mainstream Indian newspaper quickly dissipated on reading your comments below. Not that I agree a bit with them, or believe in agency of minors on sexual issues.
I am sure you have many good things to say. Hope you realize you have revealed yourself and your causes in poor light by your rudeness here. You may say it does not matter, but it does.
Regds
The professor’s choice of words leaves a lot to be desired, but then who knows how anyone would react if it was their own photo published out of context?
But I read the article in question thanks to this exchange. Intelligent, it certainly is not. Analysis it could be construed as, of the most shallow variety. My driver in Hyderabad can give you better insights about Telangana, TRS and the Maoists than your Yadav dude. But he can’t write English, so that is a problem.
N,
Agree with your point about the truth behind the structure of the MNCs. Also, about the way resource mining contracts are handed out in India. The politicians who are in-charge of these ministries themselves are taking licenses through various individuals and entities. Go to any state and some of the richest individuals(not necessarily the tax-paying ones) are the mining guys.
It is also one of the most overlooked area of India’s business potentials.
As for the structure, the corruption money finds way abroad through hawala. It goes to swiss banks. An attorney is appointed who acts on the account holder’s behalf. Bogus companies are launched and a fake CEO or GM is put in place. In the last few years, some leading Indian politicians have been using this money through these bogus companies to buy stakes in some very large MNCs. These same MNCs then come into India to do business, Black becomes white and starts multiplying. The license to the business is issued at some dirt cheap price to such companies. For e.g. Telecom Licenses. Now it will be 3G licenses. All benefits go outside the country.
Anyway, there are many such dirty truths. Its more important to create a mechanism to stop such things from happening rather than go behind those individuals. The way these things work, one can never prove. Its better to take a practical view of them and go for the best possible solution.
However, Dr. Tellis’ way of solving this grievance will lead people no where. People involved with these things are way too powerful, insensitive and ruthless. They will create so much confusion that the real objective will be left behind.
Dr. Tellis is just teaching liberal arts in an IIT. His approach shows that he’s just one concerned individual and himself has no clue on how to solve these deep-rooted problems. He can scream and shout, it will get him no where.
Regards,
Piyush K
Ashley Tellis:
“There is no such thing as a private letter sent to an editor. Privacy is also an issue with many dangers, as feminists, for example, have pointed out.”
Ignoring the fact that above sentence does not parse and makes no sense,
it is lost on this comrade that it is the norm to protect private correspondence and not make it public without the permisson of the person who expects it to be private. Comrade Tellis explicitly states he did not consider that any correspondence was private, implying that he did not care if the correspondence was made public, and then pretends that he never gave permission when the correspondence was made public, which basically makes you a bare-faced liar.
” The irony, alas, is lost on you. I guess your idea of irony matches Alanis Morrisette’s. Look up the definition in a dictionary.”
No, comrade Tellis, the real Irony is that communism is a fascist philosophy that seeks complete central control of everyone under its grip — communism is nothing but an oligarchy comprised of the Communist politburo.
The real irony is that you pretend someone else cannot see the irony of you throwing around words like “fascist”…..which indicates that either you do not have the brains to comprehend that you are a fascist ideologue of the communist kind. And yet, you are a faculty member in a so-called elite institution in India. Remember Stalin, comrade? Would you like a list of the communists who have also been fascists? Remember Mussolini, comrade Tellis?
dear ashley,
the very fact that a letter written by you has generated a ‘debate’ is an achievement in itself. your reaction is very valid and justified. i would have in fact sent a ‘beautiful garland of abuses’ if i were in your place
@ all: before reacting to someone’s ‘rudeness’, STOP n THINK, i.e. if arent moronic-imbeciles, WHY???
Hello N,
True, Kentucky Fried Chicken could be an evil corporation (genetically modified chicken could be on the horizon) and I agree in general that any entity _not_ headquartered in India, including the Church, needs to be viewed with scrutiny. But I’m on the point of your patronizing, self-denying, self-effacing act of lending your precious voice for the voiceless tribal. As you can see from the episode of how the tribals have wised up to the menace of “social activists”, they will be happier with fewer speakers for them.
We lack a common platform where left and right leaning people can have a meaningful debate. The closest i have seen is in blogs like this which i won’t call a debate as most of it revolves around known positions and hardly breaks any new ground. We like it or not, there are ideologies which we don’t agree with but have to live with, we do need a platform where both can come together and hopefully have a meaningful debate sans all hot airs. But i think we have to contend with clashes like these for starters.
sunita write:
“@ all: before reacting to someone’s ‘rudeness’, STOP n THINK, i.e. if arent moronic-imbeciles, WHY???”
No. Telepathy should not be required to figure out what Ashley Tellis wants to say — that is what words and sentences are for.
Perhaps you should stop and think about that.
Communists are not exactly patrons of free speech or thought, so excuse me for laughing at communists that insist on calling everyone else fascists.
@ M
The effects of globalization is being studied and debated world over. Indian companies like ongc, infosys and tata are mncs too, by virtue of globalization alone they were able to become competitive and succeed as mncs. But if it does have good effects, presumably it must have ill effects as well. However globalization is a debate in itself. Your concern for the underprivileged is not only appreciated but shared by a lot of people, we only differ on the solution.
Nitin,
I see Godwin’s law slowly emerging in this debate. Maybe it is time to make a closing statement and bring this discussion to an end. However your closing it may be construed by Dr.Tellis and others as an attempt to get out of a tight corner.
-Pradeep
I mentioned Mussolini instead of the other chap so that there wouldn’t be people jumping up and down yelling “Godwin’s law, Godwin’s law”.
There has been no land reform and crooked politicians, political parties, and their cronies in bureaucracy have made sure that the land mafia owns all the land in urban areas by proxy. If you have not been approached by thugs to get out of your property, it is only because they do not think your property is valuable enough for them to bother with you.
So we have a bunch of thieves and criminals in politics that do not create jobs or prosperity who sell public property (airwaves/telephone bandwidth/land/minerals) to MNCs because of their corruption and criminality, and somehow it is the MNCs that are at fault here? The MNCs have to make a business decision of not bending over for crooked politicians
or paying bribes and getting into the game to make some money.
I will believe that the MNCs are the root of all evil when the rest of public governance operates at the same level of efficiency as a private company, but how is that possible when hiring incompetent people is official government policy that exists under the rubric of social inequality.
So, yes, maybe the MNCs are not the epitome of saintliness and good heartedness, but they are far from being the main evil today — the main evils are Jyoti Basu/Lalu Prasad-type politician criminals who rip out pages from the constitution for wiping their butts and undermine the very constitution they took an oath to protect after winning the elections.
I am sure the people in charge of the country today know which of their friends and colleagues are these criminals, but we also know that these criminals will not be touched as long as they have value to the people who run the political party.
Quite frankly, if you are publishing a magazine, with any over-reaching claims of being of any quality, a stand like this “We didn’t know (and didn’t care) who the persons in the photographs are” just simply doesn’t cut it. Otherwise it is nothing but a poorly edited personal or group blog appearing in a colorful printout form. Call it your club’s newsletter. Or hire a decent editor with good journalistic ethics and standards.
@SR Murthy – Changing of names do not matter. The taking of extreme positions (and making comparisons to the absolute evil of Fascism) whose defence becomes the goal of the debate, reduces the likelihood of even trying to understand the other party’s argument. This is true for Dr.Tellis too by the way.
-Pradeep
@Pradeep,
Godwin’s law is only invoked when a specific name is invoked — we can take it to the International Court of Slang if you disagree.
You have a point about extreme positions not being conducive to debate, but arguments that do not stand up to scrutiny need to be challenged. So if the likes of Tellis and sunita are going to throw about words like “fascism” to justify their abuse, then their BS needs to be called.
Not doing so to with the intention of elevating the debate would be self-defeating — debating is elevated with better ideas on all sides, not more politeness/PCness to hide the lack of substance in any party to the debate.
I notice that the picture shows CPI(M-L) cadre marching in the crowd along with Tellis.
CPI(M-L) has been designated as a terrorist group a long time back — they are listed in http://www.satp.org ’s list of Indian terrorist groups. Please check that site out for yourselves.
@Pradeep, if you think my positions are extreme in the same manner as Tellis Saheb’s position, please do enlighten me. I promise not to bite.
@ SR Murthy – Thanks for your reply.
“Godwin’s law is only invoked when a specific name is invoked — we can take it to the International Court of Slang if you disagree.”
Godwin’s Law is just a place holder. As you have already agreed that Godwin’s law is a colloquial law, it usage does become context specific. My interpretation of Godwin’s law has already been defined by me in the earlier comment(which I feel that many would agree with). In fact I myself have a local variant of Godwin’s law according to which all the most debates on the Indian webscape degenerate into Hindu-Muslim mudslinging. That said, I still stand by my original assertion that taking a metaphorical example of absolute extremes in detrimental to the debate and comparison to Fascism.
if you think my positions are extreme in the same manner as Tellis Saheb’s position, please do enlighten me. I promise not to bite.
As I already mentioned, whether unilaterally or in response to a previous comment, comparing a person’s position with Fascism gives the impression that the accuser considers the others position as absolute evil (as Nazism and Fascism do fit the term in every sense of it) and hence non-debatable. I do believe that you have compared Dr.Tellis’ (communist) position using the same metaphor. In my opinion the best way to continue if you have a someone degenerating the debate this way is to ignore the accusation and continue to attack the user’s position with logical counterpoints.
All said, this mini-debate is indeed going into specifics. I will consider this my closing statement and would suggest that you make yours too. I will respond in case you want me to.
@pradeep, w.r.t. the exercise with throwing that accusation at Tellis, surely the man can accept what he dispenses?
@SR Murthy
w.r.t. the exercise with throwing that accusation at Tellis, surely the man can accept what he dispenses
Is that the purpose of the debate? I never said he was a saint. In fact he is much more vehemently holding a position compared to you.
Since the issue has been raised by several commenters: Unlike mainstream publications, at Pragati, we deliberately try to use images that are not “obvious”. In other words, if the article is about Sharm-el-Sheikh, we don’t run photos of Gilani & Manmohan Singh smiling to the cameras.
To the extent possible, the images are meant to complement the article. Sometimes the image is tangential. Sometimes it provides a counterpoint. Sometimes there is irony. [All this is subjective, obviously, and that is the point]. Again, to the extent possible, we try to avoid photographs of well-known personalities.
When I wrote “we didn’t know and didn’t care who was in the picture” I meant that we didn’t care about the identities of the individuals in the picture. Contrary to what one commenter has suggested, we do pay a lot of attention to the photos (as we do to the articles) we run. We are quite proud of it, actually.
Let’s conclude the discussion on this post here.