They are Ravana’s armies

…and must be defeated

The outcry over a bunch of thugs going about their thuggery donning the mantle of ‘Hindu’ armies of Rama might well distract attention from other, more pressing, security issues. But it is well-deserved. The UPA government’s dismal record on stamping down terrorism and bringing terrorists to justice has created a cynicism that is, in turn, breeding a mindset that it is somehow acceptable for citizens to gang up and use terrorism to combat terrorism. So it is extremely important—even if it is our hyperventilating and frequently irresponsible media that does it—to highlight these events and raise the threshold for their acceptance.

Because the vandals who broke into the Mangalore pubs did so, and publicly justified doing so for ideological reasons, it is important to take them head on. No, Ram’s armies didn’t molest women. On the contrary they went to war against the army of a king who committed a crime against a woman. And by no stretch of imagination can a prohibition against alcohol be justified on account of Hindu religion—the earliest traditions of which celebrated mystic intoxication through the routine consumption of Soma. Social conservatives in Karnataka might have reasons to prohibit the consumption of alcohol, but if they wish to impose it on their fellow citizens, they have to take the political-constitutional route. Barging into pubs and molesting women is clearly an adoption of the credo and tactics of Islamist extremists such as Srinagar’s notorious Asiya Andrabi. As they sink deeper into their paranoia and intolerance, Hindu extremists—whether Mr Muthalik or mindless idiots like Lt Col Shrikant Purohit and Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur—are becoming more like the Islamic fundamentalists they so hate. In doing so, paradoxically, they are departing from the fundamentals of Hinduism.

Repudiating their repugnant line of thinking is not only the right thing to do, but, as the BJP discovered after its unfortunate conduct over the Col Purohit-Sadhvi Pragya case, also politically astute. So it was good to see Rajnath Singh, the BJP’s president condemn it as “an unacceptable act of hooliganism”. Karnataka’s chief minister, B S Yeddyurappa says that his government will stringent action against the thugs and has also promised that a repeat of such incidents will not be allowed. He will be judged by his actions, but his feet have to be kept to the fire. On the other hand, he would do well not to pursue the stale old Bangalorean grouse against “pub culture”. The energies of the police force are better employed against thieves, thugs and terrorists, and not for enforcing virtue and preventing vice.

41 thoughts on “They are Ravana’s armies”

  1. The media appears to be using this to beat the BJP even when the BJP is speaking and acting against it. Does not create positive incentives for the BJP.

  2. The english-speaking media in our beloved secular socialist country will not give an inch to the BJP. That’s as sure as most of the laws of physics. It’s high time the BJP figured out a way to counter that.

    If they can’t, for some reason, find a way to bypass the psec media, they deserve the rubbish heap of history that so many of our psecs would have them in.

    Having said that, the vernacular press isn’t half as biased against the BJP and if the BJP had any sense, they’ll figure out a way to use them to their advantage.

    After all, we all must play with the cards we’re dealt.

  3. What are your thoughts on this post at vivekjyoti sir??
    It talks about Islamic Jehadis in Kerala abducting girls from Mangalore pubs for terrorist training and says that Ram Sainiks were there to avoid that.

    Something is amiss over here.

  4. Mangalore pub attack = false flag operation

    Congress arranged for a rent-a-mob to go to that pub to beat up some women, and also arranged for TV news crews to be there to film the juicy footage.

    The party that failed to protect public safety during the Mumbai terror attacks is now looking for a way to call itself the Defender of Law and Order, by orchestrating this Mangalore incident.

  5. @Kalidas,

    I am still trying to understand how beating up Mangalore girls is a solution to Kerala jihadis abducting them.

    Time to stop believing in the apologia.

  6. Kalidas

    Seriously its time we stop subscribing to the dubious conspiracy theories that find rationale for justifying the streetside savagery of “Bajrangis” .They are nothing but hired hooligans who thrive and flourish courtesy the publicity provided by the media whores.

  7. Media will rail against BJP no matter what.

    The shrillness of their response gives some indication of the amount if disgust the common man has against the UPA.

    Its in the interest of the NDTVs etc to keep the UPA in power — for their padmashrees.

    I do hope the NDA comes to power and whacks these guys with regulatory changes. The burqa dutt’s have had it coming for the longest time.

  8. The bias in the media against the BJP certainly exists.

    It was very encouraging to hear that the BJP’s involvement with the Sri Ram Sene is a media-propagated myth. The BJP’s condemning of the incident was all the more better.

    In fact, what was shocking was how CNN-IBN dubbed the incident as an act of Hindutva terror. By no means is this even comparable to the kind of extremism we face from across the border. Why are they hell bent on equating the two? What a shame.

    In fact, the BJP’s innocence can be proven by Lt. Col. Purohit’s plans for a Hindu Rashtra. He dismissed the BJP’s moderate attitude.

    During Malegaon, however, their defence of the accused was shocking.

    And was it the same Andrabi on IBN’s Face the Nation that day?

  9. Sadly, the message going out from the craven attitude dislayed by all – the GoI, the babu-neta class, the courts, media and the intelligentsia – is that violence, aggression, terror, religious obduracy and uncompromising stances pay and pay big in this country. Or perhaps that tolerance, compromise and accommodation are for losers and weaklings only.

    The violence and hounding out of Taslima Nasreen was one among many signs that its possible to ‘enforce’ ‘respect’ for your religion/ sensitivities by terrorising critics. Hasn’t gone unnoticed that whereas nobody anywhere has dared to draw Mohammad’s pictures/cartoons again after that show of aggressive force by muslims the world over, the message going out is that , perhaps, hey, maybe, aggression and intimidation could really work, eh? And after MNS went on rampage in Mumbai, how come nobody called ‘marathi terror’ by its name, eh? Don’t even want to mention Nandigram and Kashmir valley under the PDP.

    Sure, I would love to see the law being applied in full on these hoodlums but to call them terrorists is to trivialize the spectre of jihadist terror this country faces both internally and externally. Strictly IMVVHO, of course. The dhimmedia has gone to town painting spectres of ‘yindoo taliban’ and ‘yindutva terror’ utterly trivializing what terror the taliban (the real ones, I mean) hold.

    More ominously, if the state continues to fail its people on the reeeally big issues such as the demographic invasion of Asom (where’s the hyperventilating media coverage on that one, eh?) we will see ethnic cleansing and bloodshed there very soon, I fear.

    Anyway, have a nice day.

  10. Kalidas
    Your namesake is my favorite poet. Similarly, the namesake of “Shri Rama” sena is also a favorite mythological character of mine (I wouldn’t say a favoirite deity because I am atheist).

    The thing is guys like you are holding our country’s culture at ransom for your own personal selfish ends.

    Please give my country back. No body needs your personal vigilantism against jihadi girlnappers or hooliganism against girls enjoying a quiet night together.

    I am sick and tired of all these idiots barging into the 21st century and reminding us how medieval our country still remains.

  11. Vakibs,

    Fine sentiments. But please refrain from personal attacks. No slugging matches on this forum.

  12. Hey Vakibs.. I was just asking for an opinion, whether this was true or not.. and in my second post I did agree with the sentiment of this post. Attacking girls itself is against my masculinity.. or against any person’s masculinity.. 😉

    True Ram Sainiks should have attacked Jihadi camps themselves and not ordinary girls.. or perhaps joined the law enforcement agencies aiding them to police dar-ul-islam areas..

  13. Kalidas,

    Ram Sainiks should have done no such thing. In fact, they should not have been Ram Sainiks in the first place.

    The problem is not only what they do. They are the problem.

    Those concerned with upholding dharma cannot do it by violating the constitution.

  14. >> Ram’s armies didn’t molest women.

    his brother did. else we would not have had Ramayana.

    I guess Ram was too busy to molest Sita. he just wanted her to die.

    In other news, do you know any other ‘hero’ who wantonly killed women because some brahmin ascetics told him to?

  15. Who told you that soma was an intoxicant? you are foolish to have based your entire argument on such flimsy pretext. Have you ever seen/drunk soma? If I were you, I wouldn’t have made a blithering fool of myself by basing my arguments on such flimsy grounds.

  16. secondly, who told you that soma was consumed “routinely”? can you produce any scriptural/historical record for your claim?

  17. Nitin

    Nobody bugs me as much as these type of Ram-Shainiks. They are like Hitler, who has abused words such as “aryan” or “swastika”. Now these Ram-Shainiks are doing the same thing : abusing an alien concept for their own personal gain. These guys have nothing to do with Ram.


    Sorry, my anger was off the mark then.

  18. Balaji,

    You are entitled to take away what you like from the story but this is not a place for a debate over the characters in the Ramayana. Go elsewhere for that.
    In any case, political violence is not justified because the Ramayana characters were flawed.

  19. Vakibs,

    A sense of proportion, a sense of context, a sense of non-oversimplification. These are the three things missing from your comment.

  20. Kalidas –
    I’m sorry to say, but its people like you who keep Kalidas, the Gita, and Vivekananda (a picture from your blog) out of modern India.

    If you’ve ever read anything about Vivekananda, you would realize that his universal Vedanta and high standard of gender equality would be at odds with your spin on the Mangalore incident.

    Let’s say for simplicity’s sake that the abductions occur, the group should be used to protect the girls not attack the people they are trying to “save”. Does that even make sense?

  21. Soma,

    Read the Rig Veda. Or Wikipedia.

    Now, regardless of whether Soma is an intoxicant or not, and whether it was consumed routinely or not, why do you think rudeness somehow substitutes for intellect?

  22. I don’t understand why this Cannadigan version of Sena is being so brutally abused. Using violence towards political purposes is quite common in India, and often pays rich results. Taslima Nasrin was physically assaulted by Owaisi and company and then the goons in Calcutta. Teesta Setalvad promised a lawsuit within 10 days but nothing transpired. Today Taslima is out of the country and Owaisi is free. The geezer CM of Tamilnadu made a Tamil racist appeal, causing violent protests in his state. Not a peep was heard.

    Those opposed to Sene should hold vigils or silent protests outside the Sene offices or attack it. Why hold the public airwaves and public to ransom? Maybe the pub owners should hold talks with the Sene to settle their disputes. Verbal violence is unnecessary.

  23. Socal,

    The issue is not whether it pays, but whether it is right. And your comment demonstrates why this post was necessary.

  24. Nitin,

    May be you can explain where my comparison of Shri-Ram-Shene to Hitler is an oversimplification ? I am not accusing Shri-Ram-Shene to genocide or other crimes that Hitler has commited, but I am accusing it to the crime of abusing the Indian civilization for their private ends – which could be as basal as groping women and beating them.

    I see you are getting some flak for your mention of soma. Try mentioning the verses in Rig Veda where eating beef is permitted. And then all hell will break lose.

    The fact is there are a lot of Indians who wear their “Hinduism” on their sleeves and keep looking out for “getting hurt” in their private religious sensibilities, whatever that means. They are quite similar to the Islamists who made a ruckus about a bunch of cartoons on Prophet Mohammed.

    These kind of over-reactions are not permitted in Hinduism, or Indian culture. I have written a blog a couple of years ago, when these kind of hooligans assaulted an artist in Vadodara, Gujarat. I called them the orphans of Saraswati. You can find that blog here.

  25. It is an inept state (and central) mechanism and complete politicization of issues which lead to this dismal state of affairs. How does beating and molesting women uphold our ‘culture’? Is this what out Indian sanskriti is all about? And if supression and hooliganism is what our culture perpetrates, Western culture, which we so ‘abhor’ is far better…

  26. Vakibs,

    It is not only over-simplification it is plainly idiotic. And I say this without having any sympathy for Sene or its leaders. And I would have opposed them even if Indian culture expressly sanctioned their act.

    For why the comparison is perverse, you really need to look into history of holocaust: 6 million people died. When folks are randomly accused of Hitler-like behavior, it just insults the memory of those millions and belittles their suffering.

    It is important to aggressively oppose these goons but let’s also not forget the problem which lies more at the end of state’s failure to punish violence than anything else.

  27. Rohit

    Hitler doesn’t mean holocaust. He did a lot of things – some worse than the others.

    One such thing he has done is to abuse the Indian texts and incorporate these symbols into his personal agenda. This was a crime against India, and at that time there were no spokesmen to speak against this abuse.

    The 6 million people that died in due to Hitler’s genocide are by no measure insulted by my invoking this other crime of his.

    About the Indian state’s failure to punish violence, this is only obliquely related to the topic. All the culprits of the case were indeed brought to justice, and I have confidence in the Indian state that their crime will be punished. But I don’t have the same amount of confidence in Indian society that this kind of crime will not be repeated.

  28. Vakibs,

    See that is the problem: I have no clue why you think Indian society can prevent such crimes. Now, society’s role would be important if these buggers had wide public support. But they don’t. How much support has Thackeray has? Even this dude ran candidates in the last elections and all his folks lost.

    In a country of 1 billion, it is too easy to fine 40 people ready to do something stupid especially if the rewards (national television prominence) is much higher than punishment (A week in jail). We need to get this balance right and that is really the state’s responsibility.

  29. Vakibs,

    I am one of those who wears Hinduism on my sleeves.

    “Try mentioning the verses in Rig Veda where eating beef is permitted. And then all hell will break lose.”

    Please tell us more about what Rig Veda said. Where exactly does it say that? Just because a (a single one) Marxist historian makes up history to seek destroy Hinduism as practiced today, it doesn’t make it true.

    It’s nice to see everyone condemning so called Ram Sena. What of the girls going on the drinking binge? Apparently everyone approves of their actions – of course, it’s individualism and modernism as defined by western standard. Women drinking alcohol is extremely common in Bharat – but it generally is not considered civilized. But that standard is a “Hindu” standard, meaning, it’s not a standard at all for modernists. And, of course, what could be more backward then Ram Sena! One only hopes that at least 10% of the condemnation time and ink is used to look at the so called modernism.

  30. @Chandra

    I dont think the question is whether girls drinking alcohol is a civlized thing to do or not. It is about their constitutional right to drink if they want to – and there should not be the slightest hint of equivocation on that count – they absolutely have. By the same token, the ravana sainiks have absolutely no legal right to impose their opinion of Hindu culture on others in a violent manner.

    I dont if its a western standard or not, but I dont see any earthly reason why these girls should seek the “approval” of others in the first place. So there is no question of any of us approving or not approving it when we dont even have the right to do so. At best, you can express an opinion as to whether these actions are against hindu culture.

  31. The funny thing is that these brave Ram Sainiks and their cousins, the Shiv Sainiks are never around when you need them.
    They must have been on a covert mission in Pakistan when, we [Kashmiri Hindus] were being killed by the dozen every day, Kashmiri Hindu girls were being raped in front of their hostage families by Javed Mir aka Bitta Karate, our Temples were being desecrated by the Hizbul Mujahadeen and JKLF, and we were expelled from the land of our Hindu ancestors.
    Yup, they must have been occupied otherwise or they would surely have come to our rescue. And all the times Yasin Malik and Javed Mir visit Bombay and Delhi for some conference or another, sans security by the by, the soldiers of Hinduism must be away on another mission, otherwise they would surely have “taken care of business”, if you know what I mean.. Damn that Sena scheduling department.

    p.s. that, on this forum, we are even having a debate on the issue is very sad.

  32. chandra – how do you explain the kamasutra or the thousands of explicit temple sculptures all around the country? was that western influence too?

  33. vakibs –
    It seems odd to me that you would condemn people for wearing their religion on their sleeves in India, of all places.

    Chandra –
    I fail to see whats wrong with a drinking binge. In fact, this behavior is very Indian – go read Kalidasa on his descriptions of India and you’ll see that such a pious devotee of Mother Kali found no contradiction between his glorious culture and having a good time.

    The “culture” that you talk about is simply imported goods, whether from Islam or a smug Victorian British attitude.

  34. Chandra,

    I am not competent in the vedas vs. beef-eating debate. But I would like to have this debate run on scientific lines, so I would like to have this professor D.N.Jha get his book published and critiqued academically. I don’t give a hoot whether that book offends somebody’s personal religious sensibilities or not.

    Now, about women drinking alcohol. It is purely up to them what they want to do with their lives. One might disapprove them (and that personal disapproval is one’s right) but one has no right to impose one’s judgement onto others.

    Women (whether they drink alcohol or not) are complete human beings with a free will that they need to exercize by themselves. Their life is purely up to them, and not even a square-millimetre of it belongs to the so called custodians of Hindu culture.

  35. vakibs,

    >> Women (whether they drink alcohol or not) are complete human beings with a free will that they need to exercize by themselves.

    wow, what a discovery! we never knew.

    in a country where Prohibition is recommended in the constitution, whose freedom movement had a very specific campaign to picket those visiting toady shops, pub culture is a symbol of modernity now?

    The girls who got thrashed have the right to take legal recourse to get justice. But that doesn’t nullify the public goodwill inherent in the protests of Ram Sene. Let us not judge people based on their stands/behavior on other issues. In the current instance SRS campaign is justified and very much needed.

  36. Balaji

    in a country where Prohibition is recommended in the constitution, whose freedom movement had a very specific campaign to picket those visiting toady shops, pub culture is a symbol of modernity now?

    I didn’t say it is a symbol of modernity.

    It is up to people who visit pubs whether they want to drink alcohol (and suffer from the associated bad effects). It has nothing to do with me or you.

    One can, of course, try to encourage teetotalirism, by holding seminars, rallies in support of their cause, having discourses in private groups etc..

    Nobody has a right to picket the pubs, or restrict the rights of women or men who go there. Prohibition is recommended in the constitution, but it is not enforced. In fact, skipping alcohol is recommended by one’s doctor, but the doctor has no right to discharge the duties of a policeman.

  37. As a doctor, I can assure you that the best evidence recommends drinking alcohol in moderation, NOT skipping it. This has health benefits: it is cardioprotective and neuroprotective. Specifically, it retards plaque and thrombus formation, hence coronary heart disease, strokes etc. The key, of course, is moderation. The healthiest diets in the world, the so-called Mediterranean and Japanese diets have oily fish and alcohol as key components, plus fresh vegetables.

    And it has been enlightening to see how many closet intolerants have commented here. But I suppose that is the point.

  38. Chandra,

    Let’s say you and I agree that women drinking alcohol is a modern ill and needs to be tackled. Why do you think that action like Ram Sena’s is the only option as well as the correct option available to tackle this problem? Have other options been explored and exhausted?

  39. In the current instance SRS campaign is justified and very much needed.

    Hmm… okay! I suppose you don’t advocate doing things you wouldn’t. But that’s alright, we can indulge in some intellectual masturbation and let the plebs take ’em on, huh?

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